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London bus drivers set strike date: LTC - offer was 'fair and responsible'
In a released issued at 11:45 a.m., Local 741 of the Amalgamated Transit Union, which represents 450 members, said despite the assistance of a provincial mediator, a settlement offer from London Transit Commission officials was rejected by 94 per cent of the membership. "After the membership rejected the L.T.C. settlement offer…the union was hopeful that an improved offer would come forward," said union officials, "Unfortunately, with no change to the LTC mandate, discussion broke down." Union President Pat Hunniford said the membership has set a strike date for Monday, Nov. 16, adding it was unfortunate no settlement could be reached. "But both our members and the public need resolution to the current labour unrest." LTC officials said they believe the offer tabled was "fair and responsible, particularly in light of the current economy." "The Union did not alter its last position at meditation," said the LTC website. "The commission remains committed to exploring options within the framework of the offer that has been tabled." At this time no further talks are scheduled between the two. Pointing to the present limited action the union has presently imposed, transit officials said the system will "continue in its efforts to provide a safe, secure and reasonably reliable service…" Reduced service levels will result in crowded buses, service delays and extended travel time. Transit officials said while it does not presently have any plans to lock-out employees, if the job action impacts the safety, security and reasonably reliable service a lock-out could be necessary. |
| I'm a student living on Richmond downtown. It is abosultely ridiculous that I have to wait a MINIMUM of an hour for the 6 Richmond to come to campus. Then, when it does.. it is so packed that it does not even stop. As a student, in exam season, stress levels are through the roof. That HOUR wasted waiting for a bus is quality time that could be put forth towards studying for an upcoming exam. The only other option of getting home is walking! Because who has $10 or more to just throw out on a taxi. This has to stop. Public transit is the PRIMARY means of students to get to and from class, exams and the library. |
| By: Barb on 11/05/2009 |
| Barb, you think only of students. This city has a large quantity of people who use the bus system to travel to and from work, limiting the service (if not outright striking now) impacts their livelihoods. You cannot be guaranteed if you'll get to work on time if not seemingly at all. And forking over nearly an hour or two of wage just to get there via taxi/cab and then to do so on the way home, it borderline becomes not even worth it in some cases. This is just an example of how the workers are petulant little children. I truly do hope very harmful and horrible things are afflicted to the 94% of the selfish pissants. I would truly love for them to explain why they're screwing with people's lives by being gluttonous greedy buggers, $23 an hour and full benefits... Oh yeah, that have it so hard. |
| By: Bob on 11/05/2009 |
| I am a single mother of a toddler, with transit being my primary mode of transportation, living far away from anything useful being close by, i rely on buses alot, and to have them want to go on strike because they arent getting more then 23$ and hour and no viable lunch break?! Thats INSANE! No one understands the value buses pose in london, especially for students and the elderly. With winter approaching so quickly, how can one deny the residents of london with the one thing our tax dollars go towards? Seems unfair, and selfish. Taxis are too expensive now due to gas prices and the economy. Seems as though, no one has really thought this threw, primary being the unions and the workers! UNFAIR, RIDICULOUS, SELFISH |
| By: ????? on 11/05/2009 |
| Why would you wait an hour, when there is a thing called a 'bus schedule'? For a $10 cab ride. I could walk there in an hour. Another smart UWO student! |
| By: ICE COLD on 11/05/2009 |
| What would be your solution? Add more buses for students? I'm sure the city cannot afford adding more buses to the schedule while paying for the police overtime due to the student riots. How much does LTC receive from UWO for your free bus pass? Nothing. How can they send out extra buses for already overprivileged but ever so beleagured examinees? |
| By: Comment Cassie on 11/05/2009 |
| Barb If you had done the work earlier, perhaps you may not have extra stress. I don't believe you when you have to wait over an hour. As a fanshawe student, Richmond buese downtown are not that packed...embellishing your story.... At Fanshawe, it is clear that the bus strike is no excuse for me to miss assignment deadlines and exams. |
| By: Classic Comment on 11/05/2009 |
| COmment Cassie... I do believe LTC gets payment from the mandatory bus pass cost added to tuition. If the strike occur, I would be more interested to see a full refund of that fee to all the full-time students. |
| By: Joe on 11/06/2009 |
| Just a note to "Comment Cassie," please inform yourself before commenting if you're going to make rude statements. The UWO bus pass is not free for students, it is included in our tuition. The cost of the bus pass for UWO students also went up this year, and students were not given the option of negotiating the price with the LTC. Furthermore, while UWO students pay more for their bus passes than Fanshawe students do, their passes last year round and ours only last the duration of the academic year. While I do suspect some exaggeration regarding the comment made about the 6 Richmond, it is incredibly narrow minded to lump all UWO students into one category (especially consdering there are nearly 26, 000 UWO students who purchased the bus pass this year). What confuses me is where all this money that's been pumped into the LTC in the past few years has gone. Hundreds of thousands of dollars from increasing the price of the UWO bus pass, not to mention the money brought in by increasing the cash fare & cost of passes - is the only product of this cash smart bus technology and bike racks? Bizarre. |
| By: Emily on 11/06/2009 |
| The bus pass is $136.84 (for students) and being one of the students who must support themselves with work and upcoming exams, I NEED the bus system. I live in south london, and I can't even afford a bicycle, much less a taxi each day. Moreover, how can people whose salaries come from tax dollars be able to go on strike? We aren't living in a time without unions and employee rights, etc., so how come they're striking? Man, this city is messed. |
| By: Lucius on 11/06/2009 |
| Students do pay for their bus passes. In fact, even students who don't use it still pay. Students add over 100,000 people to the city for 8 months and assist the local economy in enormous ways. Please donor dismiss student needs. Also, I think the question needs to be asked why ltc is paying 10% of it hours as overtime. All businesses know to avoid overtime and this would add more local jobs. City employees should not be working overtime!!!!!! |
| By: Chris on 11/06/2009 |
| Why is it that the GM of the LTC can afford 7% wage increase for himself every year for the last four years? I did look at what other drivers are getting in other cities and yes the drivers here are getting screwed! Why is it that the mayor can get a 20% increase in salary this year/ the police got what they wanted/ the firemen got what they wanted and even the outside workers got what they wanted. Yet when it comes to the buses everyone goes ape over wage parity. The LTC has gotten money from all levels of government and even a share of the gas taxes so why can't they meet at least some of the demands?? Sounds like mismanagement to me! |
| By: bob dobbs on 11/06/2009 |
| No doubt there is mismanagement with the LTC and most people likely wouldn't disagree with that. However, the union workers are not accomplishing anything this way and only going to harm commuters and the city as a whole. You think top brass cares? No. Strikes barely ever work and simply form resentment among those they hurt most. And honestly, it's downright laughable that LTC workers DARE even remotely compare themselves with Police Officers and Fire Fighters. Those people protect us and save lives. LTC drivers in particular (not necessarily mechanics) are scrub arrogant fools who have an over inflated sense of worth and anyone could do their job. Probably better too. |
| By: Bob on 11/06/2009 |
| I guess I will fail my one class now thanks to both sides being little babies and taking an esential service from the public. To bad I cant sue for my tution and fact that I may fail now or I would. Perhaps all students should look into a class action that may get there A__es in ger. |
| By: Kevin on 11/06/2009 |
| There are tons of students, from Fanshawe and UWO, who don't use buses as their means to go to and from school, but they still have the cost included in their tuition. Where exactly is all this money going? And by the way, the Oxford East/West buses are incredibly packed by the time they reach Adelaide towards Fanshawe. On the other hand, routes 27 and 16 are so out of sync...every time I get off the 27 at Adelaide, the 16 goes by just a few minutes before the 27 reaches, forcing me to wait a whole 30 minutes to reach the north end. That's ridiculous. |
| By: Bgd on 11/06/2009 |
| Kevin, how did you pass school? Spelling errors include, essential,tuition and gear. You should complain about your teachers instead and sue them. Dgd, ever thought about asking the bus driver call the 16 on his radio to hold at the bus at the stop? Or calling LTC about the problem? How can most Londoners even tie their shoes is beyond me. |
| By: ICE COLD on 11/06/2009 |
| London has serious traffic issues. An efficient transit system is desperately needed. Transit priority signals would improve efficiency tremendously. London is a growing city of 400,000. Express buses should be on the busiest routes from downtown to north (Richmond); south (Wellington); and east (Dundas). Express buses should also be operating until 2 A.M. on Friday and Saturday to help clear the bar crowd safely. |
| By: John on 11/06/2009 |
| Some ideas for resolving the conflict: 1. Either give the bus drivers a salary equivalent to bus drivers in similar size cities, or cut the salaries of the top people. That would certainly indicate to the bus drivers union that there simply isn't the money to raise salaries at the moment. Use the extra money to hire extra bus drivers at the current salary - Cut down on overtime. 2. Give the drivers benefits. I'm of the opinion that ALL workers should get basic benefits - It is possible to keep the costs of that reasonable, and if the rest of the city workers already have a benefits program, wouldn't it be fairly straightforward to add the bus drivers in? 3. Work out a plan to meet the bus drivers demands over a five-year period. Maybe it just isn't possible right now? Actual discussion with the union would help - What about adjusting the schedules to give the driver's lunch breaks and the legal amount of time between shifts right away, and the rest (whatever they compromise on to be "the rest") over time? I take the bus to and from work every day. I don't own a car, and I don't know anyone who owns a car and live near me. I can walk the distance, but it's going to take me about an hour. I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll probably be good exercise, I guess. On the other hand, people with disabilities or with small children can't be walking such distances, and certainly a longer walk would be unpleasant-to-unreasonable, even for the average person. I wish the city could insist the two sides sit down and compromise. :( |
| By: Sophie on 11/06/2009 |
| Why is it that the very person who keeps the LTC driver's saleries well below their fair market value (when compared to other cities of equal or smaller sizes) has received 23% increase in salary over the past four years, while the LTC driver's have decreased further behind the other cities by sone 5-15% in that same period of time. As for Bob's comment "I truly do hope very harmful and horrible things are afflicted to the 94% of the selfish pissants." My 58 year old Mother is one of those driver's. She is also a grandmother of 9. Boy.....you need learn some manners, and I'd be happy to give you the first 5 lessons. |
| By: Get educated on 11/06/2009 |
| To be honest, this whole ordeal is a joke. I can have an easy solution to all of this mess. I bet there's enough people willing to work for less than what these bus drivers are getting right now per hour. Appreciate what you got as far as employment goes. With today's economy you never know what might happen to that job you take for granted today, so with that said work it out or hire new people. Remember that mortgage, car payment, or any other expense you have committed to when you walk off the job for a minor pay rate increase. Solution: LTC needs to train new employees, pay them a bit less, reallocate the savings and operate longer, and also bring down the fare. Remember with a pay increase there will be a fare increase, so don't be all sobby for these bus drivers. |
| By: Huruy on 11/07/2009 |
| this is the perfect case of how the system of the "Union" has grown into something that they were created to protect the people from. Just as much as much as the rights and quality of life needs to be looked after, who is looking after the rights and needs of the people that are paying taxes and their daily dread is being held hostage but the polilitcal games played by both parties. When we find a balance between what is fair for the whole and not just on the side of ones own interest. In hard times like this we all need to help each other but sadly that is never going to happen, so i think that the only way to change the problems with the system is for the people that this same system has been made to protect and to service, must stand and take to the streets in the same way the bus drivers want to. When nothing came move and the hole city shuts down we will see what will happen............. |
| By: von wahl on 11/07/2009 |
| How are you, Huruy are goin to get workers, to pay them less? Come on man, get real Your tired argument doesn't work, won't work. It will cost MORE money to hire new drivers, train new drivers than simply cut wages. If you get the ENTIRE picture, maybe you would have a different viewpoint. If I were an LTC driver, I would want more money, just like any other public service employee. They want similiar benefits to that of city workers (not fire and police). |
| By: Get real Huruy on 11/08/2009 |
| I was once told by a LTC driver as i was being kicked off the bus, Just for standing up for my rights . that the bus service is a privilege not a right .... now is it not the job of the government to provide the public with some form of transportaion to the people? So if it is that the LTC is a private company let me know or are they geting any subsidy from the government ? If so then i think they have a certain level of obligation to the people that pay the tax that allows the gorvenment to give them whatever money. And if it means that they have to get new drivers inorder to keep service going so that people can keep the wheels of capitalism going then that is what they should do. and furthermore with the increase on the green movement you would think that we need to start looking at how to make the public transit system more efficient in terms of new technology and reworking bus routes etc... i understand that the bus drivers and the union are only doing what we as a people have been conditioned to do for years......... that is to look after #1 and untill we can move out of that and start thinking about how we can benefit society as a whole then we are only going be widening the gap between the haves and the have nots. |
| By: vonwahl on 11/09/2009 |
| Huruy is speaking the REAL, this is why the car companies are closing because the Unions are claiming fairness when EVERYONE is compromising in the recession. Think of it ? really think? you guys are crying for higher wages and the public funds are there. this kinda of sh*tznic induces further problems(outsourcing, cooprate f&*kery) in a recession people ... now get OUR buses ready I got work tomorrow foolz!!! |
| By: the ant on 11/09/2009 |
| There are better was to get the LTC to negotiate with the Unions demands. In the end they are just hurting the everyday folk people of this city. I feel like they don't even care what the repercussions are. Not to mention from what I've seen taking the bus. I don't think they deserve a wage increase. On more than one occasion bus drivers have speed off on people just as there putting there tickets or change in the collector there AND on senior citizens, one near fell down once holding on the pole for dear life. I helped the elderly person back up and gave that bus driver my thoughts on that one. I for one will never respect Amalgamated Transit Union if they go on strike. |
| By: Ryan on 11/09/2009 |
| I agree with Ryan on this. The people who take the bus every day will be the ones who suffer by this, if it does happen. As for the drivers themselves, not only do they speed off, but on a few occasions, they show utter disrespect for passengers, or just basically rude. I have seen drivers yell at passengers, among other things. I have personally dealt with this on a few bus trips, being told to move back, when there is no way to move back, getting rude responses when asking questions about a routes, missing stops. etc/. I personally have no sympathy for the drivers. well some of them. |
| By: J on 11/09/2009 |
| I also am a student living at richmond and oxford. As a degree and diploma student, commuting back and forth to Fanshawe and Western is now going to be a difficult task with the LTC on strike. It isn't about being a smart Western student and walking, or a matter of being lazy, but as students we all know that some days there just isn't time to waste on unnessecary travel. As well, from where I live, walking to Fanshawe would take atleast an hour and a half.. with 8 am classes twice a week, I would have to leave earlier than 6 am- which is insane. This strike is absolutely not necessary in a time of economic distress. Many families are struggling due to the economy, and with job rates dropping, I don't see how strikes like these need to occur. In fact, one bus driver on the 4 oxford route was telling all passengers to call the city of London and complain about the strike, because she didn't want to stop working for an unanswered period of time. I sympathize with anyone that relys on the bus system as a means to get to work, travel, and complete other day-to-day tasks. As well, I think it is important to consider the impact of strikes like these on the environment. Today, everyone has heard of leading a more "green" lifestyle. Well, if you ask me, there is nothing GREEN about a bus strike. The fact that there will be more cars on the road inevitably means more gas emissions. And with more cars on the road, there will be heavier traffic, more cars idling at stop lights.. and so the cycle continues. This unneccessary strike needs to be discontinued before it even begins. I know that as a student I sure would NOT have voted on having a bus pass this year, had I known something like this would occur. Dropping $150.00 for the bus pass, and now having to make alternative ride arrangements and payments is rediculous, and as someone above me mentioned... where is the money each student spent on the bus pass going anyway? If you ask me, this can be seen as a matter of greed on the LTCs part. -Unimpressed. |
| By: Sam on 11/09/2009 |
| I find this to be completely ridiculous and unnecessary that the LTC plans to go on strike. Perhaps if the public was told about the current rates and facts pertaining as to why the ATU keeps refusing, some may even eb able to help by providing good solutions. I rely on the bus to get to and from school and other places. I have no issue using my bike but with winter just around the corner, it culd prove to be cumbersome. Hopefully, as it is with every strike, it ends soon and proper mediations can be arranged. I feel deeply for all the students, elderly, and the general public that rely on public transit on a day to day basis because THEY are the ones that will be hit the hardest by this unfortunate turn of events. |
| By: Leo on 11/09/2009 |
| Hi. I am a mother of three and my husband works across town and wont be able to get to work and so I ask both the union and the ltc where am i going to get money to feed my kids and to buy christmas presents for my kids. So when I have neither i will say daddy could not work because grown ups could not come to agreement. As parents we teach our kids how to work out disagreements that they might have and to be respectful and fair. I guess there parents forgot |
| By: laura on 11/12/2009 |
| Why would I ever stop using a car and commit to mass transit if it meant risking not being able to get to where I need to go to live? My carbon footprint won’t change if the alternative is unreliable. |
| By: Nick on 11/12/2009 |
| The question I believe that needs to be asked here is. Does driving a bus equal to a wage of 50k per year to start? No, they drive a bus. I don't remember a 3-4 yr course to study to drive a bus. So, why students owe $15,000+ loans and receive an average starting salary of 35k / yr when bus drivers get 50k and no loans to repay? To put this into perspective a starting salary for a PILOT is $38,000/yr with 40k school debt and 7 yrs to pay. While a bus driver earned 50k and nothing to pay back. Why go to school sounds like a good idea to teach our kids to finish highschool and get a license to drive a bus. The point here is this is ridiculous a bus driver is a job that does not deserve these wages at most it should be $18/start and max of $23. If, they want more money then they can move up into an office job instead of being content with their high paying, cushy, playing sudoku position. If, these drivers receive the full increase to $26-$29/hr greed has definantly won. I say any driver to will not back down to this unreasonable request should be fired and replaced by someone who just lost their job and see if the complain over $23/hr. |
| By: Joseph on 11/12/2009 |
| im student how go by bus every day if i dont go on time i will by late i dont like that LTC go on strick at is time or close the school a unite the LTC pay for the drive u should do some thing. how we go school . i dont have car . is winter time is too bad to walke in a houre to go class. is only in london not good for the city |
| By: ali awad on 11/13/2009 |
| I a am mom of two kids, whom every day I bring to day care. I get a bus to go there. Now how will I bring them there and how will I go to Employment Program? Besides, my family doctor is not close to our apartment, so how can I go to my family doctor with my children? By taxi? I receive Ontario Works, so It is hardly enough money for basic needs, let alone for taxis. It means, that my children and I are not able to receive medical treatment. Should I call 911? May be it will be cheaper for the Government. It's crazy! So many people have no any job, but they are not satisfied with their wage. Advise: Leave your job and give chance to others! I think, many people will be happy to earn 50K per year plus benefits! What should our family do? Stay at home? This Employment Program is an opportunity to find a job. So, we will stay at home. Another question: Who will refund money for month pass? We have already paid for services in advance in order drivers receive their wage. Who will refund money for day care? |
| By: Svetlana on 11/13/2009 |
| I took a look at the Public Sector Salary Disclosure with regard to LTC. In 2002 Larry Ducharme (GM of LTC) had a salary of $104,794, for 2008 that salary was $137,795.41. That's a 31% increase in 6 yrs or a compounded rate of 4.7%. |
| By: Fred on 11/13/2009 |
| I won't be directly affected by the strike since I have a car and can drive to UWO however I'm sure parking will be even less available now. I often have to go to 2 or 3 lots before finding a spot and it will be even worse now. I have many friends who rely on the bus and have no other form of transportation. In my opinion, the workers should have signed a short term contract while the economy is low and then renegotiated in about a year. This way everyone would win. |
| By: Mich on 11/15/2009 |
| A perfect example of the saying "underworked and overpaid". Most business men (GMs included) are criminals. Very few people are actually worth $100,000 annually. Boycott the LTC. |
| By: Steve on 11/16/2009 |
| Why can we not just fire the union? As soon as the Drivers Exam employees are no longer on strike I'm sure we could get plenty of people who are currently unemployed that would be more then happy to take the exam and work full time for minimum wage, no extra benefits. Heck, I\'m sure the students would do it part time! And hey, no strike, no union to deal with, and we can save a little money. Not to mention all the people we\'d be giving jobs! Let the union go, they won\'t settle and they are trying to hold this city hostage to get their way. |
| By: Matthew on 11/16/2009 |
| Shut up with the education=higher income card Joseph is playing. Noone told these students to major in "useless" degree programs that end in "ology"....OK SOunds like Joseph is jealous...deal with it. I support the drivers. IT is clear to me LTC management is playing chicken.....roll the dice and go to binding arbritration. |
| By: The Plain Truth on 11/17/2009 |
| This strike is ridiculous! I just spend 45min biking to work from Oxford all the way down to the other end of London (past White Oaks Mall). Just so I could go to work at my crappy 9 dollar an hour job. So I can pay for my rent and tuition and bus pass. And these guys have the nerve to strike!! What is going on here. Not only are they making, what 23/per hour????!!! I'm making 9/per hour with ZERO benefits. And I don't complain or whine about it... or now having to bike for almost an hour back and forth from work in this crappy freezing weather thru sh*tty London traffic. Not to mention how irresponsible it is for them to be striking at a time when the economy is trying to rebound!! |
| By: Transit rider on 11/17/2009 |
| To be a transit operator you need a Grade 12 diploma or GED and a valid driver's license. All of my family and friends are high school graduates who drive. All of them are qualified for the job. Two of my relatives make more than $23 per hour. One is a nurse and the other is an optometrist. Both spent a lot of time learning their skills. You can't just grab any yokel fresh out of 12th Grade and expect them to perform those two professions. You don't get to drive a city bus because you have special skills. You drive a city bus because you have connections. You know someone (on the inside) who can give you an excellent referral. LTC employees are not special, they are all expendable. Every goddamn one of them. Down with the union. Boycott the LTC. |
| By: James on 11/17/2009 |
| Uneducated people making great money such as those working at GM always think they deserve more while those of us who have went to school and started in our field at 20-30G and have taken 10+ years to make $23/hour while enduring far more stress then a bus driver, appreciate the money we have EARNED. Most of us know that raises are earned based on PERFORMANCE and PROMOTION which entails more responsibility (aka more stress) and we aren't given a raise just because we feel we deserve more. I have had a 1.5% raise in 2 years due to the recession and none of my coworkers received any raise of any significance. I don't expect those who haven't been in our shoes to understand what it takes to earn $23 for the average hard working educated employee. After all it is us educated office employees that organize the work and pay you blue collars your pretty heft cheques. There is nothing worse then seeing these individuals demanding 50G a year without taking on more responsibility or earning it through performance like the majority of the world has to do. It's undeserving and selfish and I have no pity for unemployed, uneducated greedy automotive employees who were living beyond their means, so I certainly have no sympathy for the bus driver making $23 per hour. Get back to work and stop driving like bloody maniacs trying run me over while I commute 50 minutes to London to make less then you do. You have it good, look around. In fact, ASK around, don't compare yourself to General Managers or Mayors because you couldn't do their job if your life depended on it. |
| By: Sam on 11/17/2009 |
| I think people should protest the strike!! I for one would love to go to where they are staked out at the LTC headquarters and stand out there with a sign that says: "I will take a paycut and drive a bus for $16/hr. Right now I am trying to survive on $9/hr.!!!" LTC strike= greediness at it's finest |
| By: Transit rider on 11/17/2009 |
| I love not getting cut off by some jerk driving a bus. I hope they are still on strike till March. Remember it will take them over a year to make up money that they have already lost in wages, not to smart!!! |
| By: Bubba on 11/17/2009 |
| COMMENTS ARE NOW CLOSED FOR THIS STORY. |
| By: Ross McDermott, Editorial Director of LondonTopic.ca on 11/18/2009 |
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