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Strike sooner than later if assaults continue: transit workers' union
Transit drivers, maintenance workers and administration staff are set to strike in seven days, but murmurings at the rally, which demonstrated a strong reserve and "serious issues," indicated the strike could come sooner. Pat Hunniford, president of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 741, representing 450 London members, said if verbal and physical assaults on operators continue during the last week of work-to-rule, a strike could come sooner. "We want our drivers to be safe. We have procedure for this kind of thing, if its necessary for our members to leave their bus on the road, we want them to do so. It's a safe workplace issue. We have tried everything we can think of, we don't want a strike but we have serious issues we need deal with," Hunniford said. "There are people who really depend on our service, and we want to continue to provide it. The people that use the LTC are our bread and butter," he said. Hunniford also noted a concern for the elderly and disabled – those who rely on transit for work, family commitments and doctor's appointments. Hunniford also showing concern for the working poor, eldery and disabled persons who rely on transit for work, family commitments and doctor's appointments. Union members who attended the Sunday afternoon rally, showed high levels of support for the strike set for Monday next week, with some even encouraging those workers operating the bus on work-to-rule conditions to call in sick. LTC drivers instituted rule-to-rule conditions during peak level times during the morning and early evenings making buses more crowded. This has left some buses with delays of up to two hours. LTC management made its "final offer" on Thursday (Nov. 5) to which union members returned a 94 per cent vote to strike.
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| with very little public support going on strike would be foolish because they simply would be legislated back to work. |
| By: adam on 11/09/2009 |
| the vote wasn't to strike or not but to take the offer that was presented or not. Considering the "final offer" given on Nov 5 wasn't any much different than the previous one, that was voted against, its no wonder the union has decided to strike. Perhaps if the media that was reporting about the issues would report the correct information there wouldn't be so many confused and angry people wondering how they get to work or school without a bus. I think that it isn't fair for people to verbally or physically abuse the union workers when most people don't know the issue. Everyone i've talked to assumes wages are the main issue, when I'm pretty sure that isn't at the top of the list. |
| By: Concerned on 11/09/2009 |
| I'm sure they are thinking of people who rely on the buses to get to work, appointments, I guess they never thought about the seniors or students. Like they really care, seriously. I guess they never thought about another thing, if the drivers go on strike, what about the businesses that are going to lose business because people who take the bus to get to them are going to lose. Great job there. didn't realize the previous spelling error |
| By: J on 11/09/2009 |
| LTC is going to lose alot of money if the Union goes on strike.... Do you think that Western and Fanshawe are going to be supporting them in the future if they go thru w/ this? People that find alternative ways to work just may like it better than taking a bus, thus losing even more riders. If the Union gets what they want you can guarantee another increase in bus fare, who can really afford that? I think the Union is being extremely selfish! I say do away w/ the Unions, they're the cause of the Automotive makers shutting down, all because of their GREED! If the Union wants what Missauga & Hamilton have maybe they should move there and let our unemployeed take these jobs ....... |
| By: Are you kidding me? on 11/09/2009 |
| Hahaha, yeah they're really thinking of the sick, elderly, other workers, students, businesses and generally anyone who relies on their service. Now they're crying foul over verbal and physical assaults? You are threatening people's livelihoods, effectively saying "tough shit" about it and you expect us to support you? YOU workers are screwing with US. We pay your wages through taxes and fees. 94% of LTC workers don't give a damn about anyone else in this city but themselves, and for that I simply bring up the old proverb "don't bite the hand that feeds you." |
| By: Bob on 11/09/2009 |
| Well said, Bob. |
| By: Smith on 11/09/2009 |
| As one of the "lucky" UWO students who has a walk of only 40 minutes into campus, live near a grocery store and am (currently) healthy, I suppose I don't have a whole lot to complain about with a strike looming. What still boggles my mind is the fact that transit is not an "essential service" and unable to strike. We're a city of 350,000 people and a student population of another 30,000(ish). Even if you assume a very low number of London residents (8%) using the system, that's almost 60,000 people (students and residents) who will be affected by this. That's - to put it as nicely as possible - ridiculous. Everyone has been championing the "green" movement. Sell your car! Use public transport! It's BETTER FOR THE WORLD! YAY US! Except when choosing public transport goes on strike. Then you're just screwed. With car companies practically giving away their cars for dirt and 0% financing, I would be shocked if car sales in London doesn't see a noticeable up-tick if the strike lasts for longer than 3 weeks. More pollution, more traffic and less people willing to put their faith in the city. Ridership will no-doubt be lower after this strike than it was before. The students will all come back, because we don't have a better option. Workers might just not be willing to take the chance of another strike in the future. Unions were a fantastic idea during the industrial revolution - the workers were being exploited by their overlords and they needed to get fair wages. Now, they produce nothing but sloth, incompetents who you can't fire and tarnish the reputation of the few hard-working members. They are a relic of the age where owners were corrupt - now it's the workers. Why is the contract that you agreed to when you signed up for the job suddenly unacceptable? You put your name on the line, and if you don't like it, find something better! Oh wait, you have no education and have a job that pays over $40,000 a year that anybody can do after taking a licencing course. I'll be graduating with a double major in biology and physics and a minor in classics - and I'll probably start lower than a bus drivers salary. What a world. I guess I did have things to complain about. |
| By: Matt on 11/09/2009 |
| While I certainly don't condone assaults on drivers, I sure as hell don't feel sorry for them either. They've brought this upon themselves with their greed and non-stop whining and bickering. |
| By: Angry London Dude on 11/10/2009 |
| Why are they expecting the same wage was bus drivers in T.O? Cost of living is cheaper here, the service is not even close to Toronto's. Being a UWO student and living in london for 19 years i can say the buses RARELY ever run on time. (they speed up to take a break and even out time) and the ignorance they are showing before the strike (not picking people up) is just sad. Im glad on my way to uwo each morning i drive past the bus garage, cause they are going to get a piece of my mind come the 16th! |
| By: Kevin Krick on 11/10/2009 |
| I definitely do not support anyone spitting at or physically assaulting drivers in any way. As for verbal abuse, however...that comes with any job in which you are providing a service for the public. I am in social work and have had clients verbally attack me before. It is not to excuse the behaviour, but merely to put it in perspective. I have read elsewhere the union sought benefits close to that of firefighters and police officers. Seriously... come now... In as much as transit is an essential service in the city, the drivers should not compare their occupations to those of men and women in the aforementioned emergency services. |
| By: Ashton on 11/10/2009 |
| I hear that this issue is about getting the same benefits as other municipal employees, but which municipal employees are we talking about here. Are we talking city councilors or garbage disposal workers or what? My friend in Canada told me that the bus service in her city deliberately times their strikes for final exam season or other uncomfortable and problematic times for students. She also said that bus drivers make 28$ an hour there. Which is equivalent to about 16 pounds an hour. This rate is ridiculously high. I mean for crying out loud, has someone not told these people that they drive a f-ing bus??? Why should someone who drives a bus make as much as most paralegals or nurses and more than police officers or firefighters?! Unions always take as much as they can get away with and it is our apathy that allows them to suck our tax dollars to pay for inflated salaries. Now the questions we should be asking are this: what benefits do they currently have and what do they want? How do these benefits compare to other unskilled municipal workers? And lastly, does their salary level compensate for fewer benefits? |
| By: LB on 11/10/2009 |
| I think its funny how many people on here have complained about how much bus drivers make...yet seem to know very little about the working conditions and responsibility. I decided to drive part time so I could finish college (what a thought? Rather than complain about what people who are workings make). Drivers full and part time in the US and Canada often work split shifts up to 5 days a week. I doubt you will find many professions that require you to be away from home for 12-14 hours to earn 8 hours of pay. Many transit properties/Unions waive their rights to breaks and lunches then hope that the schedule actually accommodates a layover time at the end. We do this all to serve the public…. in fact they are rarely the problem. Yet when management forces you to take job actions for fair negotiations…. then the riders feel the effects. The job is not as easy as one would think.... and many of the people that get hired often are terminated with 2-3 years of driving. Railroad employees ...such as conductors make more with less responsibility for example. When a transit operator makes a mistake....YOUR tax dollars pay for the consequences. I think you should be careful what you wish for....since you will get what you pay for! |
| By: MJH on 11/10/2009 |
| This is pathetic how the drivers are going on strike, do they honestly think they deserve more money? It's not our fault they didnt get an education or persue on with their lives and ended up driving a bus. They are screwing students over majorly as we are the ones that use this system day in day out, we paid for a whole year of transportation in our tuition regardless if some students use it or not. Final exams are just around the corner, students won't be able to make it to class to prepare for exams and then if the strike continues we will get screwed for making it to the final exam, I don't understand these drivers. The same with the garbage strike in Toronto, what makes them think they deserve more money when they did nothing previously and not get educated. Depending on how long the strike goes LTC should be giving back money to the students or to the school to give to us students (regardless if we used them or not) we paid a full year of service and should be getting money back screw you ltc drivers |
| By: what a joke on 11/11/2009 |
| How selfish to ask for MORE, during a time when so many local workers have lost jobs. I too am a union worker and would be embarrassed if my union decided that NOW is a good time to demand so much and threaten to strike if we didn't get it. Shame. Take what is offered and be grateful for it AND that you still have a job that pays so well. Who cares what the guy next door has and appreciate what YOU have. |
| By: Cindy on 11/11/2009 |
| I'm disgusted that my son will now have no way to get to college!!! I'm disgusted that drop-outs that drive big mini-vans think that they deserve sick-days or fully funded dental plans or $27/hr! They want "on par" wages and benefits as other city employees like police and fire fighters? Please! That is astronomically insane! Public transportation should be classified as an essential service! They sit on their arses all day and steer big vehicles. So what?? They want the same pay as TO or Hamilton? Come on?! Then move to those places. The cost of living is much higher there and the public transit system is 10x better. The LTC services suck at the best of times and cost too much now! You have to take 2 buses to get anywhere in the city and often get screwed by buses not being on time. Every single contract that has come up recently has people taking concessions and happy to do so to keep their jobs. My contract wasn't even mature for another year but we chose to take concessions that included 4 year wage freezes and zero cost of living increases. I also lost 2 weeks holidays. Not to mention that paid sick days don't exist. Does the local union 741 members realize that they will have absolutely no support and to proceed with a strike will not only take money from everyone who is a customer (your bread and butter) but also the union itself?? Not to mention leaving thousands of people with no way to get to work, doctor, school. If you want even a morsel of support from the people of London that you are screwing, at the very least you should have your demands and what is being offered on your local 741 website. Communication is the key to public support and the local 741 sucks at communication. I recently visited ATU 741 only to find whining about money being spent on shelters and parking lots. WHO CARES?? The local website is a complete joke. No information at all! How can you possibly expect people to support you if no one knows what is being offered, what you are asking for and why you are turning down the offers. PUT YOUR DEMANDS ON YOUR WEBSITE! PUT WHAT THE CITY IS OFFERING ON YOUR WEBSITE! Do I have my facts straight? Please straighten me out. I welcome any info or actual facts so please feel free. |
| By: Disgusted on 11/11/2009 |
| @Disgusted - If you go to the bottom of the page, there is an arrow and a drop down menu that will let you see older posts on the site. Of course that would require some effort, and not the catering to that you seem to expect. I'm disgusted that you would accept your kid being transported by 'drop outs driving big mini vans', but that's your call. Seems you're really just pissed that our highly qualified operators feel they deserve a fair wage. For you to judge what's fair would require an understanding of the job that you obviously don't have. A great number of our passengers do have an understanding of what we do, and support us whole heartedly. Oh, and tell your son the best way to get to college is to study. It worked for me. |
| By: Ralph Kramden on 11/12/2009 |
| All I see is the Union talking about one-time fees for the parking lot, and sheltering for two buses; and renovations to the offices... Do they not understand how government works?? If the LTC didn't spend all the money they are allotted by the city/province... they'd have a reduction in funding the next year. Spending on one-time incidentals ensures they will maintain said funding into the next year. (it's not a noble exercise, but that's how government works...) Increasing wages/benefits however, is a continuous expense. Hence the discrepancy in spending.... I think the LTC drivers need to take a look at what has happened to wages in the Transport industry in the past 10 years. The money is gone ... Transport drivers are lucky to start at $17/hour these days....And THOSE people are more qualified than Bus drivers... no offense. I'll be sure to shout "get back to work!" to the drivers when I can. And they can be sure to tell the media that I was "abusive" to them... |
| By: Reasonable on 11/12/2009 |
| @Ralph Kramden - I have been to all 3 pages of previous posts have you?? Your local's website postings adds up to 9 posts total. The lastest post being only whining about LTC spending money on parking lot repaving, office renovations and city employees phone numbers. There are a few posts with photos and videos BUT none of them give anybody ANY tangible information on what you are asking for or more importantly what you have been offered and are turning down. Putting up some comparative chart is not what people are looking for. How the hell can you expect people to support you if no one knows what is on the table? You say I'm incapable of judging what is fair because of a lack of understanding of the job at the same time are apparently hiding any info to give an understanding. If you are asking for the public support you ARE asking us to judge! Expecting us to side with you because you say you deserve it is just plain silly. Turning down an 8.3% increase when the majority of other unions are accepting concessions and wage freezes for 4 years is also silly. The "drop out" comment I admit was uncalled for and I offer my apologies for that. You are correct, that particular statement was more from anger than fact and hell yes I'm angry! There are over 40000 students that use public transportation in London my son included and you are using them and screwing them effectively biting the hand that feeds you to try and force the company into submission. NOBODY WINS HERE! You say you have riders support? I call BULL on that one! a simple google search will show you how much real support you have IF you go on strike. Just look at all the postings on this page alone that are not from drivers such as yourself. Gains you do make, if any, will not account for the losses you will incur during your strike! Look at the TO garbage strike and the Drive Test examiners strike. They'll never make the lost wages back. Not to mention you are doing it at a seasonally challenging time of the year. In your own words you say you went to college. Are you really telling me that you went to college to become a bus driver? Your comment about studying hard to get you to college makes no sense what so ever. As well your comment about being Highly qualified?? Come on! ANYBODY with a class G license, a medical clearance and a 3 year abstract can get a CZ license in 2 weeks. LTC only requires a high school diploma on top of the CZ so "Highly Qualified"? Please! There are a FAR greater number of jobs that require a FAR greater amount of education that are getting FAR less wages and benefits! |
| By: Disgusted on 11/12/2009 |
| So I'm not exactly sure what is so special to you bus drivers that you need to cause an EXTREME load of stress on us students, let alone the massive amount of people in this city that REQUIRE the public transport to get to-and-from work on a daily basis. I myself live with my girlfriend and a roommate and have no other way to get to school than either A. City Bus (With the bus pass that I got with my tuition, and you guys are forcing to be an obsolete and wasteful amount of money spent), B. Walk for about an hour. C. Take a cab. As I'm sure you would realize, cab service is going to SKY ROCKET if you go on strike. This will cause them to make more money, but it will not help a lot of people due to the massive wait times that will be incurred after this strike is in effect. Also, it is getting colder and colder out, and well, I'm sure you bus drivers would have preferred a warm/convienient route to school whether it was high school or college (what-have-you). Included would be the fact that walking at 6 am to get to a class that you have an hour later is going to cause a lot of people to be lacking in energy, ultimately causing many people to be doing poorly. I'm sorry to say, but the stress you guys are causing us students with this whole strike almost makes me want to go get my license and get a car to completely avoid this service for the rest of my life. Oh wait, those guys are on strike too... well thank God you guys are helping make things less stressful by being available... *rolls eyes* If you actually cared about the people who rode the buses, you wouldn't set ridiculous standards for yourselves when a job such as Waiting Tables gets you paid LESS than minimum wage, and you are required to take crap from people your entire shift in order to make your actual paycheck's worth in tips. Look at the schooling required as well... it's pretty close to the same schooling it takes to be a bus driver, the only difference is your driver's license. Congratulations for your high success in life, achieving a goal by obtaining a license that any person who has driven a vehicle for a very short amount of time could ultimately learn. |
| By: FanshaweStudent on 11/13/2009 |
| I seemed to notice that people mentioning education in relation to the wage of LTC drivers.... even a so-called union member at that. "Please! There are a FAR greater number of jobs that require a FAR greater amount of education that are getting FAR less wages and benefits!" I understand London is a student town so it is easy to look at education as the only way to earn a better wage. Education is not always a way to earn more money. Getting the proper license is easy I am sure... driving a city bus and keeping your job is not as easy. Education does not provide everyone with the SKILL needed to operate a transit vehicle... hence the lack of increased education. Driving the bus... not such a big deal... Driving the bus, making sure none of the passengers without seatbelts don’t get bumped around while simultaneously reading the schedule, operating a fare box, calling stops, and looking for passengers.... this is all on a good day. Not everyone can do it! The TTC in TO and CMB is Vancouver would not have to keep hiring people if it was such an easy job. Many people who are hired at the large transit operations will pass the license exam and on the road test but FAIL the in-service test with passengers.... because not everyone has the skill required. Air Traffic Controllers in Canada make 57k starting and top off at 123k. You do not need much formal education to get hired but they screen you for the following: "The assessment session includes a variety of tests that measure" 1. Thinking and reasoning 2. Communication 3. Multi-tasking 4. Attention 5. Information processing 6. Memory 7. Motor ability 8. Agreeableness 9. Conscientiousness 10. Emotional Stability 11. Knowledge You can spend 100k to become a pilot and still not have the skill to become a controller. I feel it is very ignorant to attack them without the details. I understand you think the time to ask for raises is bad and that the Local somehow needs to justify to everyone the detail of negotiation with their employer. Time is essence in negotiations and a strike during exams may sweeten the deal. Maybe you should be more upset at LTC for negotiating a contract that expires during finals or for not finding some way to avoid this type of situation. Maybe the contracts should expire in the summer? I myself work under a "too good to be true contract" that our union is regretting in the hard budget times right now. I still try to have the intelligence to take a breath and step back before spewing judgement. |
| By: MJH on 11/13/2009 |
| I drive for the TTC. Look people, here are some facts about driving a bus or other heavy vehicle. Not everyone can do it. Not many pass the training. The stress put upon transit drivers is very high dealing with traffic (cars that cut you off or turn left in front of you etc.) Think about this people, you pay your fare, get on and yap on the phone, sleep or read the paper, etc., who's ands have you put your life in? That's right me. So you better make sure that the driver is well trained, you ten buck an hour service worker. Good luck to you. Now anyone is welcome to come and ride with me and just try to drive this bus out of service in traffic and see if it's easy. Try to run to the running times. Public transit is a joke. Trust me on this. In a perfect world transit would be on time all the time. Hey, things happen whether traffic, sick passengers, etc., which makes it next nil to run to your time. Hell, even the subway here is even delayed from time to time. The real beef us at the unions have is with the governments not funding us like they should be. (Thank Mike Harris for downloading the cost of public transit to the city of Toronto and all of us in Ontario.) Just my two cents here. Please don't take it out on the drivers. We do understand the hardship a strike brings to people that need our service, but if we buckle and don't fight for our rights, we all lose the unions who gave us 40 hour work weeks, safe work places, holidays, and the list goes on. To my brother and sisters in London, be strong and the ATU is behind you. |
| By: ROB on 11/15/2009 |
| I also forgot to mention.... bus drivers operate the only vehicle on the road that is a target for pedestrians. YES...people chase after the bus.... and with all of the other things to watch after the scariest one is to miss is a passenger chasing after the bus. Pedestrian vehicle accidents are often the result of passengers chasing after to running in front of a bus. |
| By: MJH on 11/15/2009 |
| Support for your job action from an ATU member close by! As for the whining of those "students"...we union members have paid our dues in ways you will never understand until you are standing on your own two feet and not being supported by your parents, friends, the government handouts, and your "beers". So easy for you to judge what you do not comprehend. Wait till you are paying the cosequences for that which you wish on others. |
| By: Sister of Ralph Kramden on 11/16/2009 |
| This is for all the professional welfare recipients, professional invalids, professional mental patients, students who get bus passes for about one tenth what it costs everyone else..in other words all those who have constantly got their hands extended for a freebie. I for one,after forty years of work am tired of paying your way, now you expect me to do it through my wages. Why should I subsidize your student passes, I don't even know you? As a transit operator (which is our real job title) I am well versed in the shit and abuse people heap on us daily. I personally have had my windshield smashed twice by people throwing objects at my moving bus, was jumped and punched repeatedly in the face while driving down Springbank drive. WE have been shot at, spit on, egged, pissed on, insulted,attacked, doused with scalding coffee and we are not issued guns and tazers and billy cubs and bullet proof vests to protect us. We do our jobs in blizzards, freezing rain, fog, unbearable heat and we do it for an employer that deems air conditioning and decent windshield wipers non essential equipment. As frontline workers of transit we are expected to deal with an infusion of 50 thousand new bus passes stuck in the hands of students who for the most part can't be bothered looking at a transit map or schedule, who have spent most of their lives being coddled and spoiled and now expect Joe bus driver to babysit them. And I am expected to do this with little or no support from the people I work for. I am expected to drive around in filthy overcrowded buses that are rarely if ever actually cleaned, in the midst of a global flu pandemic, because whoever runs London Transit is more interested in the bottom line then treating their employees and passengers with any kind of dignity. I am expected to work for less than just about everyone else doing the same job so I can subsidize those 50 thousand student bus passes. I am expected to deal with crackheads, seriously mentally ill people with nowhere to go, drunk drivers (you know, like the mayors husband) drunk and puking passengers (the majority being students) teenage mothers and their screaming broods....I could go on and on. And of course I'm expected to do this while I'm navigating a twenty ton machine around a poorly planned city facing an impossible schedule, getting smashed and jarred while hitting potholes that never get fixed and dealing with a plethora of idiotic, rude and aggressive drivers, jaywalkers and idiots who stop my bus regularly to ask the time and I do this for eight or ten hours at a time with no breaks, with a bursting bladder and or intestinal cramps. And I do it because that's what I choose to do with my life, much better than sitting around with my hand out expecting the rest of the world to look after me. But lets face it, you can ask just about anyone and they'll tell you how easy my job is, how I sit on my ass all day and "just drive", how selling shoes is way more stressful than being a Transit Operator. My response to that is if your actually that stupid you deserve whatever you get. And to all those thinking and hard working individuals, and to all those seriously ill individuals who legitimately can't work through no fault of their own, let me tell you I genuinely regret this strike and all the hardships it imposes on you. Here's an idea....Give Larry Ducharme (the general manager of London Transit) a call....a few years ago he was making a measley 95 hundred dollars a month, but after the 28% raise he got in the last few years maybe he could spot you a couple of bucks for a cab. I've been told I don't work for the city and that London Transit is a private concern. If this is the case there is a simple solution to the problem....operate it like one. Word has it that transit gets 60% of it's operating revenue from the fairbox? Why isn"t this number 100% with another 20% for profit. It's my understanding that businesses that don't show a profit fold.Of course this would translate into $5.50 bus fares. Unfortunately this will never happen as a majority of our business is for those folks with the extended hands who also have the right to vote for our illustrious city council. Nuff said |
| By: rob on 11/17/2009 |
| The world would be a better place if NO UNIONS existed |
| By: Kay on 11/18/2009 |
| COMMENTS ARE NOW CLOSED FOR THIS STORY. |
| By: Ross McDermott, Editorial Director of LondonTopic.ca on 11/18/2009 |
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